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Submitted on
August 9, 2013
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AUTHOR’S NOTE: I know this is a subject that is often debated and argued about, but these are my (GingaAkam’s) personal observations and thoughts. If your thoughts and personal headcanons do not match up, then I’m fine with that; to each his own. If you would like to have a logical discussion with me, then we can set up a time in the chatroom; I’m always up for a good and logical discussion or debate. Just don’t bitch to me that we don’t think the same, no one has the same thoughts as others all the time. We are all different and special, just like snowflakes and slenders –throws snowflakes and slenders- But if you decide that you must yell and flail your arms like a three year old, then I don’t have any respect for you at all. And I will resort to something that points to one of my nickname titles.

And onto the topic at hand:


Definitely dead.

No but seriously, here's the short of it (completely forgot how that expression went): With Jeff's personality portrayed in his story, there's a very very very very very very -deep inhale- very very very very very small possibility that he would have spared his brother.

Here's the long version:

In Jeff's story he obviously cared for his brother and parents alike, like any normal kid would do. However, after his mental snap, he was obviously not a normal kid anymore; saying things like his new burned and bleached face 'fits my new personality perfectly!' (or something like that, too lazy to go back and grab the actual quote [also, HINT HINT, NEW PERSONALITY.]), burning his own eyelids off his face (gotta admit that takes a combination of guts and an insane mind to do), and carving his own face.

And then after that he kills his parents he goes off to kill his brother with the bloodied knife, giving him the iconic phrase of 'Go To Sleep', and I highly doubt that he meant 'Just go to sleep little bro, not gonna do anything with this huge ass bloody knife, I promise. Tomorrow we can go chase butterflies in the meadow again.'

With his 'new personality' he obviously killed or attempted to kill his brother. And he had obviously been successful with the murder of his parents, two grown adults, I highly doubt that a boy of around his age would be much of a challenge for him. On top of that, if you go for the 'Jeff tried to kill him but Liu survived the damage!' approach:


Jeff does not seem to be the type of killer who would leave someone to die on their own; he's more of the 'finish them off' and 'it's more fun to actually kill them' type of serial killer. And even if in the very very very very unlikely scenario that he did leave Liu to die, he was using a full sized butcher knife from the kitchen, pretty big and sharp, easy to slice vital arteries and veins. Liu would have quickly died, and be, well, dead.

And even with the unbearable amount of flaws in Jeff's story (once again, that's why I pick on him so much) I doubt that Liu would have survived.

He is dead, or at least that is what Jeff's story's original writer(s?) intended. Anything saying that he survived is most likely fanfic or OC based. I'm being as stubborn as Zehnder on this topic. The only thing that will change my mind is if there is a followup story to Jeff's proving that Liu is alive written by his original writers. And even then my headcanon would be that he is as dead as Scollex was near the end of Forgotten Past Part 1. And not in the way that he'll be back later, in the way as in dead means dead.

This being said Liu will NEVER appear in my art WITH THE EXCEPTION OF if he is a ghost, if it is a flashback or anything of that sort, or photographs or anything of that sort.

To me, Liu being alive at the end of Jeff's story is as likely as Zehnder, in that part of Sadist where Esther asked if she could stay with him (The day where they first actually talked, not the end), squeeing and then rapidly saying YES YES YES YES YES and then grabbing her hand and skipping like Pinkie Pie off into the sunset while making that squeaky bounce noise she makes.

The following was added as I was refining this for literature format, so it is new:

I am aware that there was a so called newspaper article about the ‘Woods Family’ who were killed and the oldest son being missing, and the youngest (can’t remember their age order, but I DON’T CARE.) in the hospital. However, I also know that this was proven to be a fake.

But on top of that, even if it WAS real and Jeff’s story WAS based on a true story, that means NOTHING. BASED on a true story means that is was BASED on a true story, not that it was a true story. Here’s an example, written in first person view with the protagonist being yours truly:

‘BASED ON A TRUE STORY: I was working on another comic on the computer, when I decided that I wanted something to drink. I walked out of my room, and it was about midnight so it was dark out. Sitting near an open window was my cat, Haru. She often sat there and looked out the window, but this time something was different. Her ears were laid back, and as I drew nearer, she was growling. I looked outside to try and see what she saw, and gasped a little. I saw a figure outside, a little in the distance, halfway hidden on the stairs. He was dressed in all black, and was taller than average. I looked at my cat, who was still growling, and then looked back up; the figure was gone.

I went to the refrigerator to get a drink, and walked back towards my room with some iced tea. When something I saw nearly made me drop my glass. I could see the figure again, he was right outside the window. My cat was glaring at him, hissed, and then trotted away with her tail large with fur standing up. I looked back up at the figure, and immediately recognized him. Why wouldn’t I recognize him? He was my own creation after all. The smoky tall man was Zehnder. His bandana was rolled up, revealing a snarl of crimson red teeth with a cigarette clenched between them.

Suddenly he disappeared into the shadows, and then reappeared right behind me.

“Dammit Ginga!” The menacing slender snarled “Why do you keep drawing me as a friggin’ pony!”

I smirked. “I can draw whatever the hell I want! And besides, you’re freakin’ adorable!”

“I am not!” He snarled, “Draw me killing someone or something!”

“In time, but for now, PONIES!” I said with a mocking grin. “Now go away, it’s midnight and I need to work”

“Fine. Just tone it down a bit, alright? No more blushing, dammit!” He snarled, and began walking towards the shadows to teleport away.

“Alright Zehnder.” I giggled, adding under my breath something else “I guess he hasn’t found out about that Zehndeff shipping.”

“WAIT, WHA-!?” Zehnder turned around suddenly and snarled viciously in confusion and horror.

“BYE BYE ZEHNDY-ZEHNDS!” I laughed as I shoved him into the shadows where he teleported away.’

You’re probably thinking something along the lines of ‘wait, you actually met Zehnder!?’ huh? Well, as I’ve said, that was BASED on a true story. That wasn’t the true story, it was based and inspired by the true story. This one to be exact:

‘THIS IS A TRUE STORY: I was working on something on the computer when I decided that I wanted a drink. I got up and left my room to see my cat sitting by the window. It was midnight, so it was dark. I walked over to pet her, and I noticed she was staring intently at something outside. When I looked, I saw something on the stairs opposite the window. It looked like a tall and dark figure. I looked down at my cat, who growled, but her eyes never left that spot. When I looked back up, the figure was gone. It could have been my imagination playing with the shadows; but you never know. I think it’s a fun little thing to say that Zehnder visited me and was pissed off because I had drawn him as a pony several times. I don’t believe it, but it’s a fun thought. I went and got my drink, and then returned to my work.’

See what I’m saying? Based on a true story does not mean that the story is entirely true. You can add things, or even take things away.

This being said, saying that Jeff the Killer’s story was based on a true story, means absolutely NOTHING to me.

And that is why I think that Liu is dead, along with my arguments. I’m sure I have more, I just have trouble thinking of them all at once. If I remember any, this will be updated.


Thought of something to add here that corresponds to another one of my analyses, 'Creepypastas and Characters' (Link in description)

CHARACTER Jeff MAY HAVE spared Liu. CREEPYPASTA Jeff would NOT have spared him. This is based on CREEPYPASTA Jeff, because well, it's based on his creepypasta. NOT a fanfiction. You can argue all you want with me, this is CREEPYPASTA Jeff.

And another thing, if Liu is a ghost, that means this is a universe where anyone can become a ghost after they died. Which means every one of Jeff's victims could become a ghost. Just following him around and poking him. "YOU KILLED ME. YOU KIIIIIIIIILLED MEEEEEEEEEE." I wouldn't like that for Jeff, would be annoying.  
Another one adapted from a journal.

So yeah, if anyone ever bitches to you that Liu is alive, and you think he's dead, then feel free to direct them here.

(C) *GingaAkam

And yes, that 'True Story' is a true story. The based on a true story is NOT.

Again, no idea what category to put this in.

EDIT: 'Creepypastas and Characters' -…
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JolteonUltra Featured By Owner May 22, 2014
Not only does Jeff not seem like the guy who would leave his victims to die on their own, he doesn't seem like the guy who would leave before making sure his victim is actually dead! I agree. It's illogical for Liu to have survived.
zelda806 Featured By Owner Mar 2, 2014
if zhender did do that holy fucking shit i would be scarred for life that in my opinion is so much scarier than splendy rage mode
Shyartist245 Featured By Owner Feb 14, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I wouldn't just follow him around, groaning, I would sit on his head and swing my legs back and fourth, while humming. When he would be going to kill though, I wouldn't stop him, I would get off his head, sit on something in the room, keep myself only visable to him, and stare at him. I wouldn't have my eyebrows raised like " are you really going to do this?" I would just stare at him.Nana (Stare) [V1] 
CRAZY64KaT Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2014
I think liu's dead cuz just like you've said , Jeff had a whole new personality , since he could burn his own eyelids and cut his mouth,
why couldn't he kill his own family members ?
shadowangle6 Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2014
To be honest, I believe it was up to reader to decide Liu's fate. Even after everything, I Liu would still love Jeff even IF (Note the IF) did live. I actually saw something where Liu also snaps and understands Jeff's need to kill because it's happening to him. I did hear a story on Youtube where Liu joined Jeff and Smile Dog, but it could have been in an alternate realities. I believe in them since I enter them when I sleep, and you never know what's going to happen.
capitalofawesome Featured By Owner Oct 29, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
angryleo1998 Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
*sarcastic* yeahhhhh jeff totally did not do what is in his name

*note: in my stories each creepypasta has a civillean identity ex. jeffs is his pre face fuck up and mental snap jeffery*

jeffery: whats in my name?


jeffery: okay. have the cops found liu yet

nope! *after shooing him away, in turn back to ginga* don't have the heart to tell him that he killed him
kitkat3447 Featured By Owner Sep 14, 2013  Student General Artist

I highly doubt that he meant 'Just go to sleep little bro, not gonna do anything with this huge ass bloody knife, I promise. Tomorrow we can go chase butterflies in the meadow again.'

XD That just made my day

PlasticPromises Featured By Owner Sep 2, 2013
You have a really good point… also, is Liu older or younger than Jeff, if you know? Cause I see people saying either way in their fanfictions and it confused me lol… like I got the vibe from the creepypasta that Jeff was younger but then I see a video where Liu is younger and it confused me
GingaAkam Featured By Owner Sep 3, 2013  Professional General Artist
I don't know, personally I see Liu as younger. But that's only because I work with Jeff when he's a couple years from his story, meaning he's around 19-20 now. Whereas Liu died when he was what, 12? 13? So he remains a child in my mind where Jeff is a young adult. I haven't read his story in a while though so I can't remember what it actually said.
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